Arizona's state prison system has been struggling for years with high turnover among corrections officers. The job is tough. The prisons are in remote locations. The pay is low. The hostage standoff of 2004 at the Arizona State Prison Complex-Lewis highlighted the problem. In the two years since then, Director Dora Schriro has worked to make changes in the operations of the prisons and pushed for competitive pay for her officers.

In the state budget for the fiscal year that begins July 1, Gov. Janet Napolitano has proposed a 7.5 percent pay raise for all state employees. She has also proposed a $39 million pay package for corrections officers on top of that.

Last week, Schriro sat down with The Arizona Republic's editorial board and state reporter Amanda J. Crawford to make her case for raising corrections officers' salaries. Here's some of what she had to say:

Schriro: I wanted to talk to you about the problem and the solution. The problem is simply being unable to recruit and retain the number of folks who make up our excellent workforce so that we can continue to operate the prisons without incident. And the solution is pretty simple at this point: We absolutely must have a competitive pay plan. The bottom line is when your staff doesn't earn very large salaries, when the other competing county jails and (federal) Bureau of Prisons are offering anywhere from $3,800 to $6,300 more starting, that's real money for people, particularly for folks who have families. We have had high rates of turnover for a number of years. Turnover has been in the 25 percent range for a long time, and it is up higher than that now. What we have talked about because of Lewis and its aftermath is that turnover doesn't necessarily mean that you don't have people in positions. It means that a fair percentage of those people have no tenure, and so their level of expertise, their field experience, is not as great as people who have been there longer. And in our field, it is really important to discern differences that cannot be taught only in an academy.

Q. What's the average tenure, then, among your staff?

Right now those who are resigning, they've been with us for an average of 3.8 years. So just about the time they are really starting to . . . develop the kind of expertise that makes them particularly proficient in the field and also as they move closer to promotional opportunities, they are being wooed away by other counties and the Bureau of Prisons.

Q: You've done the training, and off they go?

We have a terrific workforce. They are well-trained. They get a lot of great field experience. And then they are recruited by other places that can pay more money. Turnover is high. In fiscal year 2005 it rose to 27.5 percent. But the thing that has become more vexing for us is the vacancies. Not only are we having trouble keeping people, we are having trouble finding people, and we cannot back fill those vacancies as fast as we could before. That's not good news to taxpayers, because necessary posts are now being covered by overtime.

That's what the pay package would address. We really can't wait until July. Pima County has approved a pay raise that will go into effect (for its jail officers) in April, and some of our staff has already left. Pinal County is currently hiring 211 new officers, and they are expressly targeting our staff.

Last year, the Legislature appropriated a modest increase for corrections officers, $1,410, in lieu of the 1.7 percent other state employees received. That $1,410 was about equal to a 4.5 percent increase, and it did nothing to slow, stop, pause - nothing. We just continued on that downward trend.

Q: Are there factors other than financial ones that play into this?

I'm not sure about that. I know that quite a few of our staff drive long distances. We have quite a few staff, for example, that live in Tucson but drive to Florence, Eyman and Lewis. So certainly they are going to give serious consideration, especially in light of fuel prices, to do the same work . . . closer to home.

I think one thing that has really contributed to our high rate of vacancies is our increasing reliance on overtime. In the last pay period, the average overtime worked by corrections officers was 28.76 hours per pay period. So that is 14 or so hours a week above the 40 they are working. That overtime takes quite a toll. The majority of our staff has family, children at home and many are single parents. To have so much uncertainty as to when you are going to get off work, when are you going to go home, is really having quite a negative impact. Until we have a competitive pay plan and fill the vacancies I don't see any end in sight to the overtime or to be able to fill the vacancies we are talking about.

Q: At time-and-a-half pay, that must take a large chunk out of the budget.

It does. Clearly I am very concerned about my staff as people. But as a business conversation it's a bad way to do business.It costs a pile of money. Last year (fiscal 2005), we spent about $16 million either between straight cash overtime and also retiring the comp time balance at the end of the year. This year (fiscal 2006, which ends June 30) we are anticipating it will reach $37 million. That is directly related to the spike in the vacancies and the greater amount of time to fill the positions.

Q: Can your officers decide not to do overtime, or is it expected?

It is a prerequisite for the position. Assuring public safety is non-negotiable. They know it when they sign on, but living it might be another matter. We have done things to improve those conditions. There has been a big swing from mandatory overtime to voluntary overtime.

Q: How much of a pay raise are you specifically asking for?

The governor's budget includes $39 million for the corrections series in addition to the 7.5 percent raise that is being sought for all state employees. Our CO I's in the first year, would go from $26,364 to $33,325 and the CO II's (after the nine-week training academy) would go to $35,475.

Q: That's a substantial raise.

That's how far they are below market.

Q: Are you in a dire situation?

We are really in a nosedive. I don't think we can go on like this much longer. That's why the governor has included in her budget at our request that the pay package for corrections officers would kick in May 1. We can't expect staff to wait until July. There is necessity. There is also urgency. The best business plan is to pay a fair wage and staff at the correct level so that you can get rid of all the other silly stuff that ends up costing so much more. Right now we have over 1,300 vacancies (of 6,125 appropriated positions). We are confident with a competitive pay plan we can bring in these people and have these people in place by the end of the year.